>> cenk: the most abuse in the nsa that we've talked about who was his mentor, james clapper who obama chose to be head of nsa for his intelligence administration. that's all we have for you, bye bye. >> john: americans love their privacy, at least that's what they've been telling everybody on their facebook, twitter tumblr, but the debate continues to rage on and edward snowden may never be able to reintermeshing. why ask so much of the media focused on mr. snowden and not the bipartisan cluster frack of government spying. and juicing with steroids. we might be able to work in a conversation with baseball.
and many believe the red sox is a racist name nor the football team just because it happens to be a racist name for a football team. today the is birth of george h.w bush the recently married jim nabors and anne frank who would have been 84 today. and the hacker of the stubbenville racist will have to spoken five more years in jail than the stubbenville rapist. more with "viewpoint." [ ♪ music ♪ ] >> john: good evening, i'm john fugelsang. this is "viewpoint." thank you so much for being here tonight. national security agency whistle blower edward snowden played a new tune today one that must have murked his former builder. keith alexander defended the
phone and data mining program as lifesavers. in hong kong mr. snowden told the post that while the u.s. complains about chinese hacking computers, china is complaining about the same thing. he said, quote:back in watch general alexander told the senate appropriations committee that complaints that the data mining program violates americans civil rights are misinformed. >> i do think what we're doing does protect american civil liberties and privacy. the issue is to date we've not been able to explain it because it's classified. so that issue is something that we're wrestling with. how do we explain this and still keep it safe and secure?
that's the issue that we have in front of us. >> john: so it's legal, we tell you why, but we can't. the nsa director added this explanation to the program that apparently isn't classified any more. >> it's dozens of terrorist events that these have helped prevent. >> john: but there seems to be a good deal more to the nsa story that we don't yet know. california democratic representative loretta sánchez attended a secret nsa briefing tuesday and she told c-span she learned more there than what the public has been told. >> i can't speak to what we learned in there. and i don't know if there are other leaks, if there is more information somewhere, if somebody else is going to step up but i will tell you that i believe it's just the tip of the
iceberg. >> john: for more i'm joined by alexis mcgill johnson an executive director of the american values institute, and here in new york, codirector of the brennan center for justice. thank you for being here on "viewpoint." >> thank you for having us. >> john: alexis, let me start with you you're in d.c. can we believe what we heard from general alexander in the hearing given that james clapper doesn't even have a slight problem misleading the public or congress? >> you know, i think that is the real challenge here. we don't know what to believe from anybody. there is an odd circularity in their logic. at some level we have to assume that we're being protected because they're seeing these attacks, they're foiling them at the expense of data mining millions and millions of innocent americans. and so we're being asked to
weigh some very serious consequences. our civil liberties on one hand and the fear of another attack happening. i think part of their whole logic is to actually keep us in a constant state of fear. >> john: it would seem that way but let me follow up. if they can tell us that there are a lot they can't tell us, why are americans upset that claps than been dishonest with them and all of us. >> that's the challenge. those representatives who had been exposed to the information who have received the classified information by the very nature of it being classified are not able to even show us the fact that they're creating the right oversight over the information. we don't know when we're actually doing or when the government is actually conducting overreach on all this stuff because we can't evaluate whether or not the oversight is
appropriate. >> it's almost as if they want us to watch the kardashians and not think about this. you heard them say the programs edward snowden revealed is just the tip of the iceberg. what is the other 90% that we haven't seen, can you speculate? >> it is hard to. the nsa is the most secretive agency in the government, probably and it's meant to be collecting foreign intelligence. at this point we learned about them collecting call records possibly internet records and skype records as well. 5:00 we learned about their intelligence program which sweeps in a lot of u.s. communications. the thing that we haven't learned about is whether they are actually collecting the content of u.s. communications deliberately and saving them. i don't know if that's what they're doing but that would be
another step forward if that is happening. >> by content of communications, digital recordings of phone calls stored in utah or e-mail texts or both? >> potentially, as general alexander did say in the hearing the u.s. absolutely does not do that. but if this is the tip of the iceberg, then that's got to be the next logical step of the ice perking. >> john: how comforting. alexis, this issue of blanket security as you know is not going down well with some democrats and some libertarians who say the most transparent president in history should detail this to the public. do you agree? is that a reasonable expectation? >> i do when you look at the context of where a lot of americans are experiencing this president feels very very similar to the previous president, right? when we look at not just foreign policy, but our drone policy,
our--the use of fisa and the patriot act and guantanamo bay. there are a whole set of concerns that we've had for many years when we thought this president, particularly as a constitutional scholar by trade would actually help us get to a better place. i think that we do have broad concerns about that. i do not think it's going to change substantively under him. >> john: it is worth pointing out as senator barack obama did revote to authorize patriotic too, he has given us a mixed message on that. the aclu has filed suit. do they have the standing. >> it looks like. standing as you alluded to, is the most difficult barrier bringing a lawsuit on surveillance. here the aclu was a verizon business customer, so it knows
it's records have been collected. it has been able to allege it's privacy in terms of communications with potential clients, whistle blowers others with whom they want to have a private conversation has been compromised by this. if anyone has standing at this point in time the aclu has a pretty strong case. >> john: it would seem that the government could shut down a strong case by claiming state secrets, am i correct? >> that's right. that is the big issue whether the government will assert the states secret document, and courts have been differential to the government when they assert state secrets in cases involving extradition--i'm getting confused with snowden now. are rendition cases and cases involving surveillance. states secret has been an issue. if the government goes forward
and declassifies more information in an effort to explain this program to the american public, then i think, you know, it might be harder for them to turn around and say we can't even talk about the existence of this program. >> john: then i have a question for both of you i'll start with you, faizel. if all the of information is out in the public, and the polling indicates that the public doesn't mind yet, do the libertarians, the aclu have a case or will public opinion wash the controversy away. >> yesterday there was a poll that came out where it said that 53% said it was okay. and then there was a poll today that 59% of americans objected to it. it depends on the poll. >> john: if the government looks at all your phone calls and internet for future use you might have different responses.
alexis, what do you call the disinterest in this issue. >> i wouldn't call it disinterest, i think we hold ambivalence because we hold fears on both sides. fears of somebody horrible--of something horrible happening in, and we just saw something horrible happening in boston, and then we have to think of about our civil liberties. we may post what we post on facebook and twitter but we don't expect that to be available to some 500,000 low level contractors who are able to surf through our information an target us in ways that we don't understand the appropriate oversight. i don't think we're am biff atlanta, but we don't know how to evaluate what is happening right now. >> john: do you think we will see a movement of our elected officials to call on james clapper to resign? >> i doubt it. i actually doubt it. i just don't see them--i don't
see them engaging in that way. >> john: really, do you agree? >> yes. >> john: i'm surprised when you look at the strange bedfellows. last night i said it's not strange bedfellows when you have michael moore and glenn beck versus john boehner and die dianne feinstein, i'm a bit surprised we're not seeing more outrage from the rand pauls and the bernie sanders on this. >> they depend on the intelligence community to provide information and if the information is classified its hard to expect him to give a different answer, at least in public. i think the question is more was there any follow-up? did he clarify with the senators asking that question? >> john: clapper lying under oath is okay this time. i hope nobody tells that to president clinton.
rand paul has begun to fundraise on the issue. he sent out a mailer a saying dear patriot. do you think this will be an issue in the next few months and will be swept up as the popular white house scandal theme? >> i think they've been a little more protective around the nsa because they sport support the goals and the tactics of the nsa broadly. i do think that the arguments happening feel familiar. they feel like there is that efficiency there is a good reason to do these "dragnet" surveillance and efficiency was a reason for the irs to use "tea party" in their searches. there are arguments that will be made that will bring scandals together even if they don't go
deep in the nsa. the aclu is also fund racing. i've gotten my e-mails to give a few dollars. so it has raised a few strange bedfellows. >> john: i was watching fox news because i'm a thinker and i heard john bolton say people need to focus on benghazi. he's hilarious. the nsa programs have of course helped to prevent terrorist attacks. are they right about that? >> again, it's hard to know. they have not declassified information. >> john: wouldn't they? we heard about the new york subway plot that was foiled. wouldn't they be boasting? >> well, it's all classified. remember? the government i think they classified 92 billion pieces of information in the last fiscal year that they reported for. just the amount of data that is
classified is huge. in terms of the prevention of terrorist attacks i thought the testimony today was quite interesting. he didn't actually say that they had prevented a number of terrorist attacks. he said they prevented a number of terror "events" which is a curious phraseology if you think about it. an event could be a financing piece of it, which is of course something that we should go after, but it's not quite the same thing as the boston marathon bombing. >> john: i was perplexed by that language terrorist event? i hope i can get tickets to that. we'll discuss more of these topics when "viewpoint" returns right after this.
patel. let me go to you on this, alexis. what will happen to edward snowden. the government will file charges an go after him. it seems pretty investable, correct? >> absolutely. i think it's tricky for him to go to hong kong hiding out in a very very delicate space while i think the president is actually just finished having meetings with the chinese president. i think it's very interesting that i he chose hong kong, it was deliberate and the government has no choice but to go after him. >> i'm sure the chinese government was shocked to learn that the american government was snooping on them electronically. they fear that they'll be tortured or persecuted for their political views. could the c.i.a.'s black programs come back to haunt the
nsa or the treatment of bradley manning come back to haunt the nsa now? come back to haunt them now if snowden can claim look at what they did to manning solitary confinement, that's torture, you have to protect me. >> that's a very important point, and i think that triggered my curiosity about the way snowden is being treated. we know the government is going to go after him. obviously we know why he or have reasonable ideas why he chose hong kong, but to let the commentary to attack his personality, character and adopt a lot of the press points that he he is a narcissist, he's really not that important and he's not really a whistle blower is really a big critique that makes me feel like the net that they're trying to cast is a lot
wider than just snowden. >> john: does that surprise you as well, the left's criticism of snow zen or do you find it's balanced the ones calling him traitor left and right. >> i think it's balanced. there are a lot of people who are calling him a hero and a lot of people calling him a traitor. in the context of bradley manning, it's somewhere in between. it's two die mentional and this is a multi dimensional issue. the same thing happened with julian assange and bradley manning, when the leaks came out we saw characterization that focused on their person amounts rather than what they had done. >> john: your program seeks to make sure that our government respects rights and local government lawyers in hong kong are reportedly working with the u.s. government lawyers with 36
offenses with which snow den could be charged. >> mr. snowden expects to be prosecuted, as well he should. they've identified 30-odd defenses doesn't surprise me at all. the way the criminal code is written, every action could be covered under several offenses. bradley manning was charged with 22 offenses. you can be charged with stealing government property, the he is espionage act taking information home when you shouldn't have, there are loads of these different provisions that are kind of overlapping that they can charge them with. and of course each charge carries with it a sentence so that accumulates quite quickly. >> john: i don't think anyone is disputing that he's guilty of these charges but could he not use the manning case as precedent to say that he faces cruel and unusual punishment if
he returns to his home country? >> he can, but it's a tough argument to make. if he was in a country that did not, for example allow life in prison many european countries don't. the maximum sentence you can get is 20 years because they consider more to be cruel then perhaps he could argue that he will be subject to that much president time, those are pretty difficult arguments to make. if he can do that coming out of hong kong, i think it's pretty unlikely. >> john: alexis, there has been a defense fund set up for mr. snowden but it's far from clear that americans take his actions as seriously as they take the fear of another terrorist attack. what do you say to people who say, go ahead, spy on me if that's what you have to do to protect me from terrorists. >> i have this conversation all the time in the last three days. there are so many people who are deeply ambivalent about this and they're okay. david simon had on his blog.
>> john: the creator of the wire. >> the creator of the wire, talking about how it's actually okay because we are concerned about what's going to happen. the thing that has been in the back of my mind in the last couple of days is naomi climb. she wrote the shock doctrine about the level of fear that happens around particular situations terrorist attacks great disaster, and how people just kind of creep in, they put these policies in while we are still kind of in mourning or in shock or in loss, and i feel like we're still--it's still smarts this fear of terror still smarts us a lot and we're allowing a lot to happen, we're allowing the water the heat to be turned up on it without us being as vigilant as i think we would be as if this
conversation was happening under george bush. >> john: is there sympathy for mr. snowden? >> oh, i'm sure there is. there have been a number of people who have come to his defense. you see both sides of the story. you know, there was a lot of sympathy for bradley manning. there are people who have been outside of his trial protesting. that same group of people will certainly be supporting snowden. i think it's important to remember the significance of what snowden has released here. this is a government program, it is sanctioned at the highs levels of the government, and it has been kept secret from the american people. it's something that effects all of us. >> john: high school drop out gets access to everything. faiza patel at the brennan center for justice and lay lex citizen mcgill johnson you're the smartest kids in class. it's great to have you both on
go time! it's go time. it's go time. what time is it rob? here comes the young turks go time! it's go time. oh is it? oh, then it's go time. anybody? anybody? what time is it? oh, right. it's go time! >> john: tonight on wtf nevada, we look at governor brian sandoval who has vetoed a law that would have required restaurant chains to list nutritional information on their menu. i guess the governor thinks this law is pointless.
and i can understand why the restaurant chain industry is skittish about a law like this, revealing calories. let's face it. if you examined the food served in restaurant you would see they lack certain inroad convenients and list the calorie counts of their food. have you seen some of the heart attacks waiting to happen of people who visit las vegas casinos. wtf, nevada, information is power. why not let your residents and your tourists know that the double bacon cheese covered pull porked hamburger hot fudge brownie sundae they're about to eat just might be high in calories?
and he ain't in hong kong. tony bosch the founder of the bio genesis of america has signed to out mlb users. how polite. using alex rodriguez, ryan brawn and melky cabrera could be facing suspensions up to 100 games but major league baseball has one of the strongest players' union in professional sports. this is going to be quite a fight we have the the great dave ziron, author of "game over": how politics have turned the sports world upside down" great to have you in the studio. >> great to be here. >> john: good to have you. okay an interesting twist to
this whole case that has come out recently. and i didn't know this, i just heard about in this week, minor league players who are not protected by the players' union are now starting to talk in order to secure protections for themselves. they're trying to turn minor league players into major league snitches. what is going on? >> before 2010 minor league players weren't tested for everything it with regards to steroids and performance-enhancing drugs. the thing that is complicated when you talk about minor league players, a large number of them were born outside of the united states where steroids is available over the counter. this is where they invest to sign the kids at age 15. let's talk about what that does. when they're coming to the
united states, they become depend on steroids not only on themselves but their families back home. the dominican republic with poverty rate of roughly 40%. then they get in this horrible black market that tony bosch is part of it. you use these masking agents that are dummy steroids which is nothing generic about them, these are the things that harm people. what is so maddening to major league baseball's whole approach to steroids and performance-enhancing drugs, they view it as a crime and punishment. thou howe can we get people to snitch others out instead of a public health issue and trying to figure out ways to incentivize health. >> john: those who oversaw
baseball made a lot of money off of these now are seen the austere champions of justice. >> i once spoke to a major league baseball player. he said it to me so perfectly. he said when it comes to steroids punishment is an individual issue but distribution is a team issue. what he was talking about is the ways in which there is a chain of command in major league baseball which makes this discussion not dissystem to discussion abouts things like the nsa and everything else you were talking about in the first part of the show. >> john: i'm so glad how you can loop nsa in this part of the show. >> we can loop all these things in. >> john: it's the management-town type of thing. >> yes, it's a chain where the people at the top don't get hurt and they're safe from this. do you remember when congress did their big steroid hearing when mark mcgwire said he was not going to talk about the past. >> john: as the chair collapsed beneath his giant size.
>> it was basisful. >> john: this guy bosch has shaky credibility. is there hope that if enough minor league players talk they'll have a case. >> that's what they're trying to go. anthony tony bosch is not the person you want on your witness constant when you're trying to suspend players from games. >> john: why the bush push, though. it's been several years sinister rhoids has been named a scandal. what's driving this. >> what is driving the push, i think, the ability to break the major league baseball's player association, they're weakened to not mount a defense. there has been this cultural shift among the players where they don't want the union
standing tall and strong and defend people who might be dirty, who might be using performance-enhancing drugs. they want to figure out a way for the game to be clean. i'm doing that in a legitimate way. but what that means is there is a pressure on the union to not just poke holes in tony bosch as if he's made of cotton candy. tony bosch he's going broke. the major league baseball was going to sue him back to the stone age. he was going to sell his stuff to several players so they wouldn't be caught by major league baseball. instead, major league baseball is dropping the lawsuit against him and putting in a good word to the attorneys office so they don't prosecute him on criminal grounds. >> john: it does seem that tony bosch is the best chance the players have of this case falling apart. a lot of minor league players are in a difficult situation. if they're terrified if they
cooperate and name names to protect themselves, their baseball careers are done. >> yes let's also keep in mind a typical minor league player might make $1,000 to $2,000 a month. if you compare that to a major league player who may make $100,000 a week, we're talking about utilities players. how cheating quote/unquote is incentivize in baseball. think about that for a second. the talent gap between a triple-a game and major league game is very nature narrow, but the benefits to make that leap is immense. the but the absence of union protection, 47% of them are born outside of the united states creates an incredible power embalance for for those players. >> john: what are the odds they'll be handing out suspensions. >> i think we're looking at 50-game suspensions. 100 games 100-game
suspension won't happen. don't poke holes in tony bosch like he's chris bosch and it will go away. >> john: and then we'll go on and talk about adultery in baseball. it makes you feel like it's the babe ruth. >> yes. >> john: we'll radio try to find out more white people are not offended about a football team named redskins up next.
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alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. this show is about analyzing criticizing, and holding policy to the fire. are you encouraged by what you heard the president say the other night? is this personal, or is it political? a lot of my work happens by doing the things that i'm given to doing anyway, by staying in touch with everything that is going on politically and putting my own nuance on it. in reality it's not like they actually care. this is purely about political grandstanding. i've worn lots of hats, but i've always kept this going. i've been doing politics now for a dozen years. (vo) he's been called the epic politics man. he's michael shure and his arena is the war room. >> these republicans in congress that think the world ends at the atlantic ocean border and pacific ocean border. the bloggers and the people that are sort of compiling the best of the day. i do a lot of looking at those people as well. not only does senator rubio just care about rich people, but somehow he thinks raising the minimum wage is a bad idea for
the middle class. but we do care about them right? >> john: welcome back to "viewpoint." the reports are that the washington redskins have hired frank luntz's pr firm for their poor image problem. tiel pierce wrote: that's hilarious, tiel but i think they'll come up with a way to make native americans and other americans who don't like the name redskins seem like they're the real racist. if you have a comment for the show tweet us or post it on our facebook page. we got one. we're joined once again by the great dave zirin author of "how
politics have turned the sports world upside down" and he has been on every tv show. >> but this is my favorite. >> john: and great to have you here for the first time normally you're a face on our screen. the washington redskins owner what a guy. he said 1908 he would never change the name. now he has hired consultants to conduct a focus group to handle this problem. >> he taught us that global warming dan snyder, he is costanza with hair. it's his nervous aggressive intensity and his inerrability to make people feel comfortable around him. you see this. every time dan snyder talks the
people who want to see the redskins name finally changed they get more up in arms about it. the reason why dan snyder says redskins isn't offensive. don't you love it when white people tell people of color that it's not offensive. he said it represents a proud history. i hope he's not talking about the history of this country when red skins was a slang for those who collected scalps, i hope he's talking about the nfl history. there is connective dna between the name redskins and the people who gave them that name. george preston marshall described as as the nfl's
leading bigots. they were the last team to integrate. >> john: and the jfk administration had to force them them. >> because the stadium was on federal land. and do you know who did a demonstration in support of george preston marshall? the american nazi party, his base. the thing about the washington redskins, they were the southern-most team in the nfl and marshall had an incredible affection for dixie and the slave south. when he proposed to his wife in 1947 his lovely wife who is a hollywood actress, he set up the stage area to look like a slave plantation including singers people giving them mint julips, and people acting as slaves.
>> john: most white people have no problem with the redskins. they support that they should not change the name. i imagine the more we talk about this, the number will go down. >> it's already down 10% over the last 10, 15 years. that's not insignificant. it might seem slow but i think the name will change, and change in short order. about percentage, when virginia finally ended the ban on interracial marriage, 88% 69 stateof thestate said they were in favor of the ban. the second reason why i think it's going to change is that the redskins have been saved by their own mediocrity. it's been a generation of mediocrity. they have not been part of a national discussion. they are now because they have this quarterback by the name of robert griffin iii. he is the best thing to be part
of nfl since they invented face masks. he's amazing. as the team becomes more a part of national discussion it will have to be addressed on the national level. ten members of congress, including members of the republicans, sent a letter to roger goodell said we would not keep this type of name and keep in mind, washington, d.c. .6% of the population is native american. they would never get away with it if it was bigger. if your team name depends on a genocide, you ought to get a new team name. >> john: i get flack back saying indians don't mind. yeah you'll find chiefs in
newark who come out and say we have no problem with it. they have a bigger problem than the bigetted team name. but there are plenty of caucasians and african-americans, and latinos who are embarrassed to have a team with this name. >> it's so shamer that roger goodell, said in a letter issued today, he said the team named redskins is a symbol of unity and never meant to disparage anybody. if there is one thing that george preston marshall loved it was not disparaging people in unity. >> john: exactly. he didn't consider them people, so he probably meant it. you have issued a challenge to dan snyder. >> yes, i have an article coming out tomorrow. and i have a challenge to dan snyder. >> john: that will be on the--
>> it will be on the grant land site. the challenge is very simple. it's asking him to accompany me to pine ridge in south dakota, one of the largest reservations in the country. i want us to go into a bar and have him sing "hail to the redskins" turn on a camera and see what happens. he has got to wear his red skin starter jacket belt buckle boots and underroos. let him sing the song and let them roll the cameras. if it's not offensive, then it's not offensive. he might need to see his dentist after, but the dentist could use all caps. >> john: on that note let's hope that they change the name more historyically accurate like the washington genocide. thank you, it's always a pleasure to talk put. next i'll be talking about a different kind of crime that some people think is worse than rape.
the crime of being the guy to catch the rapist. you don't want to miss it. going to do the young turks. i think the number one thing that viewers like about the young turks is that we're honest. they know that i'm not bs'ing them with some hidden agenda, actually supporting one party or the other. when the democrats are wrong, they know that i'm going to be the first one to call them out. they can question whether i'm right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us.
you know who is coming on to me now? you know the kind of guys that do reverse mortgage commercials? those types are coming on to me all the time now. (vo) she gets the comedians laughing and the thinkers thinking. >>ok, so there's wiggle room in the ten commandments, that's what you're saying. you would rather deal with ahmadinejad than me. >>absolutely. >> and so would mitt romney. (vo) she's joy behar. >>and the best part is that current will let me say anything. what the hell were they thinking? >> john: finally it's time for tonight's f-bomb.
the rape of a 16-year-old girl in steubenville, ohio, was shocking but the crime may never have seen the light of day without the hacking group anonymous. it found students who witnessed this crime joking about it. that's students called themselves the rape crew and they may have gotten away with it if it weren't for that hacker and the laptop. this is an example of something good coming out of the high tech information age which we dwell. women are exploited every day by men who get away with it, so we should thank any man who brings about justice. right? wrong, not everyone feels this way. it may be the information age but it's also the pro male blame the victim age as well. derek also known as ky anonymous whose work played a key roll in
exposing this crime could face up to ten years in prison if he's convicted of hacking. that sentence is five times longer than the sentence given to the actual rapists as well. he wouldn't be going to a juvenile detention as well. rape a womb, we'll throw the book at you. help to catch the rapist, we'll throw a whole library at your face. there is a suspicion that he's being made an example of. many in the community tried to cover up the crimes. wow, a school football coach shielding rapists paterno's ghosts. a girl being raped is one thing but god for bid that a game is postponed or cancel. if the players are sex criminals it might hurt school spirit at pep rallies. the two teens convicted of the rape are minors, so i should not reveal their identity on tv so i'll say their actual names are trent mace and malik richmond, and they were sentenced one to
two years in a juvenile detention facility. the teens who watched the rape and aided and abetted the rape, who did nothing to stop the rape, who shared the videos of the rape a and mocked the rape victim saying they had no sympathy for whose. they weren't charged. you could hear the slapped wrists reverberating around the ohio valley. but the anonymous faces ten years in prison. if this rogue hacker had not been so misguided. if he had used his hacking abilities for something good noble, like, i don't know, spying on every day american citizens instead of wasting his talents on exposing the guys who exploit drunken passed out girls. now i acknowledge that there are thorny legal and moral questions
involved when it comes to hacking, and it's too bad that this privatecy invasion is not more in the news these days. it's a nuance issue which means because i'm talking about it means i'll never have a gig in cable news again, but rape is not nuance, rape is rape. and it continues on in our schools, military, prison systems because society allows it to continue. generally speaking men don't take it seriously. it's a great week for punishing whistle blowers. when you're done putting this guy away you might have a chance to convict harriet tub man for her unauthorizeed trafficking. i would like to thank our guests, and this is current tv. we're still here. good night mom. see you tomorrow.
>> joy: tonight is nsa whistleblower edward snowden a traitor or hero and why did he go to china. and more americans now approve of george w. bush than they do of president obama. and i'll talk with liberace's exlover who is now saying he also had an affair with michael jackson. tonight on "say anything." [♪ theme music ♪]